Live Radio.

[CharmingNathan]

Hello,

Looking for some general help please.

We are preparing to start producing some live programmes soon.

Our current system is RadioDJ playout software to Altacast then out to the Web & Mobile devices. We also manage our own streams.

I'm assuming that for live programmes, from the point of view of someone remoting in, they would need remote access to the server that Altacast is on, disconnect it, then connect their Ed/Altacast to our server, and their studio will be live, is this correct?

Assuming it is, presumably no matter how smooth the re-connection is from our end to theirs, there will be at least a few seconds of dead air? If this is correct, is there anyway to stop this?

Thanks for any help offered.

 

[Support]

I'm assuming that for live programmes, from the point of view of someone remoting in, they would need remote access to the server that Altacast is on, disconnect it, then connect their Ed/Altacast to our server, and their studio will be live, is this correct?.

Depends on what you are running on your server? Shoucast v1 / Shoucast v2 / Icecast ? If Shoutcast v1 they may need to manually disable the AutoDJ (if you use this) before being able to connect.

Assuming it is, presumably no matter how smooth the re-connection is from our end to theirs, there will be at least a few seconds of dead air? If this is correct, is there anyway to stop this?

Yes, that is correct with Shoutcast v1. With Icecast and Shoutcast v2 you have stream mountpoints which automatically move the listeners without any disconnections or gaps of silence.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Ahhhh...now that is interesting. We are using SHOUTcast v2 and Icecast. I hate to sound ignorant, but I didn't know SHOUTcast even had mount points?

Are they in the same format as Icecast's i.e. I.P. address Port No./mountpoint?

How does the presenter 'remoting in' take over without any dead air?

I really think I've missed out something here...

 

[Support]

Are they in the same format as Icecast's i.e. I.P. address Port No./mountpoint?

Yes, that is correct.

How does the presenter 'remoting in' take over without any dead air?

This works best if you have an AutoDJ playlist running on the /stream mountpoint and then the DJ connects their live stream on the /live mountpoint. This will override the AutoDJ stream and move the listeners across automatically with no dead air / gaps.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thanks for that, taking it a stage further, and please forgive my naivety here, but I have never used AutoDJ, as I run everything from my own server, but would it be possible for instance, to just run a long announcement off of AutoDJ, and the new DJ then connects?

I presume while AutoDJ is running, any separate studio is effectively off-air and dead is it?

 

[Support]

No problem.

Yeah of course, you can run anything you like on the AutoDJ. A long announcement would work well, it does not have to be music.

Well if no live source from a separate studio is connected to the server, then yes its "off-air".

 

[CharmingNathan]

No problem.

Yeah of course, you can run anything you like on the AutoDJ. A long announcement would work well, it does not have to be music.

Well if no live source from a separate studio is connected to the server, then yes its "off-air".

Okay, thank you for that. Next question: I have NEVER used AutoDJ as all aspects of the station are self-managed, so how would I go about transferring the live output from the current server playing out, to the announcement on AutoDJ, then back again to a live system? Any step-by-step directions for this? Also, how would this affect our self-managed streams, i.e. those that do NOT go through Internet-Radio.com?

Finally, on a different but related note, can anyone recommend 'songs played list' software? We currently use Marci, but have been advised that their system would only list .mp3's when the station is live, and we will want to play C.D.'s and vinyl during the pogramme, which apparently Marci is unable to handle. Any ideas please?

Many thanks.

 

[Support]

The AutoDJ can be running a playlist 24/7 in the background for your announcement. We explained above how this works with using stream mount points. You can configure the individual mount points of an Icecast server under the 'Mount Points' tab. We suggest having a read of the Centova manual on configuring mount points: http://www.centova.com/doc/cast/use...ual/03_configuration_settings/10_mount_points

Ideally, you will want the AutoDJ feature and the announcement running on the (default) /stream mount point and then your live stream connects on the /live mount point to override this and move your listeners across automatically. You will need to create a /live mount point in your settings.

Mp3 files have embedded meta-data, hence why this information can be read by software. Vinyl and CD's do not as they are physical formats, a CD's track info will only be read on the CD player itself. You can only update the track information manually in an encoder with such formats as you are basically just feeding an audio signal from a mixer / turntable / CD deck directly into your soundcard / encoder software.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Can I ask you to confirm if this step-by-step guide is correct to go from jukebox-type playout to live radio please?

1. Live jukebox plays on /listen mount on both SHOUT and Icecast.

2. Live presenter has mount of LP, uses encoder with /lp setting in mount point.

3. Within CentovaCast /lp is entered and saved, but no field for separate password (assume they all use standard password used for first mount?)

4. During station jingle being played out, when it gets to end, presenter clicks on 'connect' button and /lp mount takes over from /listen mount with no gaps. Presenter is then live, having taken over from jukebox on /listen mount.

5. Process is reversed at end of programme to reverse back to playout system.

Anything left out or incorrect please?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Support]

1) Do you mean the AutoDJ feature when saying "Jukebox"?

With Shoutcast v1 you do not have any stream mount points and therefore you have to manually enable / disable the AutoDJ feature in order to go live. Your 'Strange Fruit' Shoutcast account is v1.

Shoutcast v2 does use mount points, but it is slightly different in how you connect a live stream with it as it is with Icecast. With Shoutcast v2 you do not specify any mount in your encoders settings to go live, you instead connect on a different port number and use a DJ account username and password combination. Please see the following guide for this: http://www.internet-radio.com/commu...odj-with-a-live-stream-in-shoutcast-v2.21813/

Icecast runs the AutoDJ feature on the mount /autodj, so when you connect live you should connect on the /live mount point with your encoder software. Your listeners by default tune in via the /stream mount and are then automatically moved between /live and /autodj etc.

2) Only with Icecast you would need to specify the mount in your encoder which in this case would be "/live"

3) The /live mount point is already configured in Centovacast by default and does not need to be added in the control panel under the 'Mount Points' tab, it's there already but you just don't see it in the "Current Mount Ponits" list. All you need under this section is the default /stream tab for the AutoDJ feature. You would also just use your accounts "Source" password to connect the live stream.

4) Yes, but it would be on "/live". We can see you have renamed your /stream mount in your Icecast account to /listen. We suggest changing this back to /stream and the rest is automatically taken care of as outlined above.

5) Once the live source disconnects it will automatically switch back to the AutoDJ stream.

Hope this helps?

 

[CharmingNathan]

It sort of does, and doesn't!

Probably not helped by me not explaining the setup here enough:

If you mean InternetRadio's AutoDJ, then no. We use RadioDJ and use their AutoDJ feature.

We have an external overflow server from InternetRadio, but the rest is managed internally.

How much does this change your response above, which I thank you for!

 

[Support]

Right ok, we see now. We did think at first that you perhaps were referring to something else. As your original post was about 9 months ago we didn't read back through the thread.

Well as you are using separate radio automation software (RadioDJ) this is essentially still a live stream source itself. So in order to connect another presenters encoder instead, you would have to disconnect the RadioDJ source in order for them to connect their own encoder.

With Icecast servers you can run independent mount points for different sources, you basically just split your maximum bitrate between the mount points. So for example, as you have a maximum bitrate of 320kbps on your account, you could run one mount at 192kbps and another at 128kbps. However, doing it this way they will just run in parallel and your listeners then have the choice to listen to one or the other. They are not moved automatically like if this was done with the AutoDJ feature on /autodj and a live stream on /live.

 

[CharmingNathan]

No, not at all.

As you say, we technically have four streams - two each of Ice and SHOUTcast we manage internally, and the same again with InternetRadio.

What I'd like to happen is for the live presenter to be automatically moved across on all the channels, without gaps in broadcast, simultaneously, but I am guessing that is going to be pretty hard to achieve with streams managed internally and externally?

I am also somewhat puzzled by the password issue? There are fields for additional mountpoints for both Ice and SHOUTcast in Centova Cast, but no field for a password - so to they all run off the 'first' stream, and therefore the security becomes the login?

Thanks for all your help in trying to understand this.

 

[Support]

Well your 'strangefruitshout' and 'strangefruitice' accounts with us are just acting as relays of your internal servers, so nothing even needs configuring this end.

So with your with your own internal Shoutcast and Icecast servers our comments mentioned above still stand. In order for another encoder to connect live, you will need to disconnect your RadioDJ automation software as this is actually a live source itself. You cannot have two live sources connected at the same time. So one needs to be disabled for the other to connect. Therefore this will not be done automatically and there will be a gap from the change over.

As you are also running Centovacast on your internal servers, we recommend just using the AutoDJ feature for your automated playlists. That way when another presenter (DJ) connects live the mount point transition is automatic and without any gaps. This is easily possible and Centova is designed for doing this, but as you run your own playlist automation software (RadioDJ) your problem here is wanting to override a live source with another encoders live source which is not possible.

Stream mount points do not use any special password themselves. You still need to use your server accounts main 'Source' password. There is no need to have any different password for each mount point.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thank you for your reply Support, very clearly explained.

After I posted it, I realised the accounts we run with yourselves, are relays, and therefore are basically irrelevant to this question as you suggest.

Now, you raise an interesting point with running automated playlists. We probably run our system in the basic way possible, in that while we DO run the AutoDJ feature of RadioDJ, we basically let it run through our catalogue of .mp3's, whereas I believe automated playlists are different from this?

Would this also mean that as you mention Centova Cast running autoated playlists, the .mp3's would have to be transferred to the server running Centova Cast?

I realise you could just say "see both Centova Cast and RadioDJ's manual for running automated playlists", which would be a very reasonable reply, but I thought I would ask anyway!

WIth regards the password, then each presenter's login would be their 'security' rather than the password, /cn for CharmingNathan for example, and the password being the original 'Source' password?

 

[Support]

When we say "automated playlists" we just mean basically any software that plays the tracks for you automatically from a catalogue instead of you having to physically do this yourself as a DJ.

Yes to use the servers AutoDJ feature instead the files would need to be uploaded to the server and added into playlists.

Exactly that. With Centovacast v3 you can create individual DJ accounts which have their own server login passwords and you can set privileges for them etc. But for connecting a live stream, yes they still require the servers 'Source' password.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thanks again for your reply, Support, very helpful - it's nice to know I'm getting some of this right at least!

Please forgive me if I come across as being 'picky' or 'pedantic', but I need to clarify exactly what you mean, as if you mean what I think you do, it actually means a fundamental change to our setup, basically in order to enable live broadcasting without any transmission gaps, otherwise presumably our setup could be left as it is.

At this moment, our station runs with RadioDJ automatically picking its way through a vast collection of .mp3's containing songs and jingles which it then sends via the encoder down a network cable to our server (a different physlcal machine) running Cenotova Cast - would all of these .mp3's need to be transferred to the server running Centova Cast to enable its AutoDJ function? In effect, this would leave RadioDJ redundant for this function?

If the above is correct, is there a way of networking Centova Cast to play these .mp3's from the different server that you know of?

You state the individual accounts would have their own server login passwords - I take it you mean they would all use the same password, but different logins, namely their individual mount point?

Two further points that lead on from the above (assuming I am right):

1. If Centova Cast could do the job of RadioDJ's AutoDJ, how does one find the encoding software necessary to broadcast? I only know of one compatible with Linux, called "Airtime" which is not compatible with the platform we use - CentOS 6.5

2. (Perhaps this should directed to Centova Cast instead?) We use what is probably quite an old version, 3.0.5 and I am unable to find any AutoDJ feature at all?

3. (Again, maybe should be directed to Centova Cast!) Does their AutoDJ allow for jingles and songs to be played at certain times, in the same way as AutoDJ?

Thanks again for your help with clarifiying these matters!

 

[Support]

No problem at all. Happy to help

Yes we are suggesting a change to your set up if you want this to transition automatically, although we do appreciate that this is probably not ideal. Yes the mp3 files would need to be transferred to the Centovacast server itself to enable its AutoDJ feature. So yes this would make RadioDJ redundant. The issue here is that RadioDJ is an encoder which connects live to the server meaning that any other encoders are unable to connect if RadioDJ is already connected.

No, individual "DJ Accounts" do not require their own individual mount point each. But yes each DJ account has its own unique login for the control panel. But in order for them to broadcast live on the server they will need your control panels 'Source' password. They cannot use their own individual control panel logins for this.

We highly recommend having a good read through the Centovacast documentation to get a good understanding of how the stream mount points work: http://www.centova.com/doc/cast/user_manual

1) For Linux we would recommend the 'BUTT Encoder': http://danielnoethen.de/

2) Version 3.0.5 does support the AutoDJ feature. It's probably more than likely though that you have never installed any AutoDJ software on your own server in the first place if you have not required this feature before. We highly recommend looking into 'Liquidsoap' (http://savonet.sourceforge.net/) which will run as the AutoDJ on both Shoutcast and Icecast servers.

3) Yes you can schedule playlists and jingles etc. But to be honest the Centova AutoDJ is probably not quite as advanced as the RadioDJ version though. For a more detailed guide on the Centova playlists please see: http://www.centova.com/doc/cast/user_manual/02_reference_manual/12_playlist

 

[CharmingNathan]

You've given me a lot to think about Support, thank you - I think!

Just briefly (for now) in reply to Point 1, I have tried to use B.U.T.T. before on Widnose without much success, having looked at the Website you suggested, it doesn't automatically suggest that B.U.T.T. is compatible with CentOS 6.5, although it appears to be with Ubuntu, but unfortunately Centova Cast isn't.

I was half hoping that if I used Centova Cast for the AutoDJ function as you are suggesting, an encoder wouldn't be necessary, but obviously not...?!

 

[Support]

You're welcome

Oh right ok, sorry we must have missed where you had mentioned you were using CentOS 6.5. Yes it does appear to only be supported on Ubuntu. Perhaps contact the developer and see what he is saying about this?

Yes that's correct, you do not need any encoder software at all to use the Centova AutoDJ feature. You will only require encoder software for your live streams.