Live Radio.

[CharmingNathan]

Thank you, nice to know!

Right let me attempt to clarify your points, before I start making fundamental changes to our system:

1. Running RadoDJ supplying Centova Cast its AutoDJ service of .mp3's of music and jingles via Ethernet Cable and Router is an inefficient, awkward, and pointless way of doing so.

2. Centova Cast has its own version of AutoDJ, which may not be as feature-full as RadioDJ but would allow us to play music and jingles at a set time.

3. No encoder (Alt/Edcast, B.U.T.T., etc.) is needed to stream the output from Centova Cast to the outside world.

4. It would appear that there is no compatible encoder for CentOS 6.5, though I will contact the developer of B.U.T.T. as you suggested.

5. The process for correcting Point 1 would be to copy all .mp3's of songs and jingles from the existing server to that running Centova Cast, rendering that server and RadioDJ redundant?


Thinking about it, even if one could find an encoder comatible with CentOS 6.5, would this not be a bit irrelevant and actually potentially make the situation slightly more complex, as the live presenter would presumably need some sort of remote access software (such as TightVNC) to be able to remotely access the server and amend the encoder's configuration details to reflect their I.P. address and login credentials?

I think I need a lie down!

 

[Support]

Try not to over think this...

1) It's not pointless using RadioDJ, but as you want automatic transitions for other live presenters by using that software for your automated playlists it makes that not possible. Hence our Centova AutoDJ suggestion instead which will work in that way.

2) Yes

3) Only your live DJ's require encoder software installed themselves in order to connect their stream to your server which then broadcasts their shows.

4) We are not sure what encoders are available for CentOS, so it' worth doing your own research into this.

5) Yes.

Your DJ's do not need any remote access software to stream on your server if it's running Centovacast. They just need the servers hostname, port, password etc. We can imagine they wont likely be running CentOS on their own machines anyway but just one of the standard operating systems which all have plenty of options for live encoding software. http://www.internet-radio.com/community/forums/encoder-guides.23/

 

[CharmingNathan]

Hello Support,

I am trying not to over think this, though I do appreciate where you are coming from...

My trouble is that to follow your advice would need such a fundamental change to our servers, and impact our Website, that I want to make sure that I am getting absolutely the right information and understanding of the issue, before going ahead.

With this in mind, I have contacted Centova Cast directly with this question, and their response seems to be at a variant from what InternetRadio is advising:

My question to them: Ideally I'd like to do this with third party software, i.e. RadioDJ's AutoDJ system, but as I understand it for the smooth transition, I have to use Centova Cast's AutoDJ?

Their response: Not at all, you don't *have to* use Centova Cast's autoDJ, you can disable it if you'd like, and you can use any third-party software as a source with all the additional features in may provide.

When I queried the difference in response: We can only say that all our statements are true, but unfortunately we cannot guarantee that everything will work exactly as you expect. The only way you can be absolutely sure about something, is if you try it yourself, and that is why we have a free trial period.

I have to say from a logical point of you, your answer seems more logical. Encoders are essentially transmitters, and surely to switch off one to go to another would produce a silence for a time. Centova Cast's AutoDJ is the only way I am aware of where one can have audio output to the web, without using an Encoder at all - at least as far as I'm aware?

I'd be interested in reading your views on this please...

 

[General Lighting]

Just noticed this (unfortunately workloads and some minor health problems have kept me away from online radio for a few months, though I should hopefully be getting back on track soon).

Unfortunately what you want to do (which is perfectly logical for those who are from a traditional radio background) is not as simple online and none of the free/affordable automation software (although often very good) does all of it in an easy way.

I experimented with RadioDJ a few years back on a stream that broadcasts long pre-recorded EDM mixes and it was good but didn't work well with those longer MP3 files.

Auto DJ does keep a stream running but last time I used it (things may have changed) was not ideal for content you want to be playing out exactly on the top of the hour (idents/jingles etc) unless you trim every audio file to the correct time and "do the maths" as it would not stop or fade overrunning items.

To get easy (from the presenters POV) switching from an automated stream to a live one if you have a Linux VPS that can handle a few simultaneous streams something like Liquidsoap (requires some knowledge of scripting) or Sourcefabric Airtime (very good when it works straight, not the easiest thing to install does need watching carefully but can also serve as a playout system for non live content)

Use this Linux box to host various "internal" mountpoints for Icecast. Use it in the same way the "lines area" was deployed in old skool broadcasting; (where the ISDN, audio from remote wideband links etc was switched to the mixer and programme audio feed), presenters can create mountpoints with their live stream; liquidsoap can relay the master stream to Internet-radio.com (which is better for your security and likely to be capable of handling more listeners), you can also do clever stuff like providing a lower bitrate AAC stream for mobiles.

As you seem to know a bit about Linux I'd suggest either experimenting with Airtime on a non critical system; they have used it at the community radio station in my town or if you are good at coding / command line stuff try Liquidsoap.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Hello General Lighting,

I am sorry to hear about your health problems and glad that it sounds like you're on the road to recovery.

I know comparatively little about Linux, and only know what I do, as I wanted to run my own Centova Cast installation, which only runs on Linux.

Unfortuately, as far as I'm aware, there are no encoders available for the platform I run: CentOS 6.8, including Airtime.

As the previous Support post suggested, I do not want to over think this, merely have as smooth as transition as reasonably possibly from an AutoDJ system to live programming.

From the posts I have seen from Support, they seem to suggest that this is only possible where no encoder is used at all, which seems to be the Centova Cast AutoDJ system, which makes sense.

However, Centova Cast seem to be saying that any third party software can be used, which seems a bit illogical as that would necessitate the use of an encoder, however one does it.

I have also been advised against using Liquidsoap as I wish to keep the original Ports, which with Liquidsoap it appears is also not possible.

I hope this clarifies the matter and makes some sense!!!?

 

[General Lighting]

Liquidsoap will let you use whatever ports you wish for the incoming and outgoing streams although from my experience it does work much better with Icecast rather than Shoutcast.

If you are running Airtime already, (and if you have got it running on Centos you are more skilled than you let on ) it normally uses Liquidsoap anyway to generate the streams (that is unless you have Airtime generating analogue audio for playout into a mixer). Bear in mind you can use Airtime to feed the streaming servers; and its own automatic switching for the live shows (which is what I was doing with my experiments).

That does mean the presenters have to connect with a less usual config (but has the advantage they cannot cut across your main mountpoint by accident) there is a quirk whereby a scheduled live show will show a confusing connection error to the presenter until the exact on air time (if you can trust your presenters to tell the time they might be better off using the stream input that overrides the scheduled playout).

Unfortunately it isn't simple (at least from the engineer/station managers end) if you are trying to make things easy for less tech aware presenters - the community radio station have been wrestling with the same problem for about 4 years and dead air is even more of an issue there as Ofcom really do not like it!

IMO the easiest way if you have Airtime is to use it to generate the stream in place of Auto DJ (you can keep centovacast running for the listener stats and other info if you wish) and get the presenters to connect to the airtime incoming stream; but that is easier to do with Airtime on a VPS rather than a standalone PC unless you have loads of reliable bandwidth.

If you want I can also ask the folk at the community radio station (I run a small server with Liquidsoap transcoders for them) how they are currently running their setup for live remote broadcasts (although the response may not be immediate as they are juggling running the station with their day jobs)

I haven't tried the more recent Centovacast Auto DJ setups but I see no reason why they wouldn't also work as Support suggests; the only issue may be such an arrangement may not be as "spot on" for time critical content - that may or may not be an issue depending on your stations format (such as if it must play out adverts, sponsored content etc)

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thanks for your reply, General Lighting, however I am afraid most of it was irrelevant and lost on me.

Looking back on my previous post, I obviously expressed myself very poorly, and in doing so, gave you entirely the wrong idea!

I stated "Unfortuately, as far as I'm aware, there are no encoders available for the platform I run: CentOS 6.8, including Airtime."

Reading that sentence as you've read it, I appear to be directly contradicting myself, i.e. stating there aer no encoders for the platform I run, and then stating that I run CentOS 6.8, including Airtime - but I believe I have my grammar wrong!!!

Perhaps it should have run this way. "Unfortunately as far as I'm aware there are no encoders available for the platform I run: CentOS 6.8, which includes Airtime! As in Airtime isn't compatible with any version of CentOS - I know this, because I've asked them!

I actually run Altacast with RadioDJ, but am looking the possibility of transferring everything to Centova Cast to enable smooth transition from AutoDJ to live, which I believe (according to Support) would work.

Terribly sorry for the mis-understanding, would you care to reply to my original post again, with the 'correction' in place?!

Thank you.

 

[General Lighting]

if your can tolerate a "time slip" of a few seconds/minutes in the playout times of the pre-recorded content (if you are playing individual tracks interspersed with jingles/idents and any advertisers are not fussy about everything being timed to the last second may not be an issue) this should work.

The only potential snag is any overrunning content on Auto DJ will be abruptly cut off and replaced with the live stream - I guess though if you started and ended each block of pre-recorded content with a music bed that might not sound too rough.

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thanks for that General Lighting!

Just to clarify, did you intend those scenarios from a RadioDJ or Centova Cast AutoDJ to live programme?

Support's idea was that if I moved from RadioDJ to Centova Cast's AutoDJ, there would be no transmission gap between AutoDJ and live? As in from going to back to back music to a presenter coming "on-air" using their mount point on both SHOUT and Icecast...

 

[General Lighting]

It was the Centova Cast AutoDJ.

When I was trying out RadioDJ I wasn't streaming directly from it but sending the analogue audio output through an "old skool" analogue mixer feeding another PC for soundprocessing (one perk of my day job is I can recover all sorts of obsolete hardware which is still usable for audio work )

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thanks for clarifying, General Lighting, much appreciated!

Ah I see, I do like RadioDJ, I must admit.

Well, I have attempted to migrate the SHOUTcast side of our output to Centova Cast AutoDJ, I have the three ticks advising me everything is okay, the songs are being played, even the jingles seem to be working, but there appears to be no audio.

This maybe my P.C., but the worrying thing is I can hear audio from other sources, when I look the station up on Internet Radio's directory, and press the red play button, it shows the pause symbol for a second, then reverts back to the play button - any ideas? The station name is Strange Fruit Radio.

I've also looked at the log under SHOUTcast, and all seems to be okay...

 

[Support]

when I look the station up on Internet Radio's directory, and press the red play button, it shows the pause symbol for a second, then reverts back to the play button - any ideas? The station name is Strange Fruit Radio.

Your relay on http://www.internet-radio.com/station/strangefruitshout/ is playing fine for us here. We have noticed though that your own Shoutcast server is streaming in AAC (http://212.159.60.105:8002/index.html?sid=1).

If you are testing this in a browser such as IE it might not always playback correctly with the HTML5 player. But it will work fine in Chrome / Firefox / Safari etc.

 

[Support]

I have contacted Centova Cast directly with this question, and their response seems to be at a variant from what InternetRadio is advising:

My question to them: Ideally I'd like to do this with third party software, i.e. RadioDJ's AutoDJ system, but as I understand it for the smooth transition, I have to use Centova Cast's AutoDJ?

Their response: Not at all, you don't *have to* use Centova Cast's autoDJ, you can disable it if you'd like, and you can use any third-party software as a source with all the additional features in may provide.

When I queried the difference in response: We can only say that all our statements are true, but unfortunately we cannot guarantee that everything will work exactly as you expect. The only way you can be absolutely sure about something, is if you try it yourself, and that is why we have a free trial period.

I have to say from a logical point of you, your answer seems more logical. Encoders are essentially transmitters, and surely to switch off one to go to another would produce a silence for a time. Centova Cast's AutoDJ is the only way I am aware of where one can have audio output to the web, without using an Encoder at all - at least as far as I'm aware?

Yes Centova are correct in that you do not have to use their AutoDJ feature and you can use third party software instead. But for automatic transitions you cannot have two live sources streaming on the same mount point at the same time and then have the listeners automatically moved between them. So either they have misread your questions or they are aware of something that I am not?

 

[CharmingNathan]

Your relay on http://www.internet-radio.com/station/strangefruitshout/ is playing fine for us here. We have noticed though that your own Shoutcast server is streaming in AAC (http://212.159.60.105:8002/index.html?sid=1).

If you are testing this in a browser such as IE it might not always playback correctly with the HTML5 player. But it will work fine in Chrome / Firefox / Safari etc.

Thanks for that Support, but this is very strange.

You are quite right, on that page you've linked to, the output can be heard, however if you go to the Internet Radio Directory under "Alternative" and click on play, the issue I described above is still happening.

Also, we've recently installed a new radio player on our site, which gives the listener the options of the two different streams - Icecast is okay, but SHOUTcast shows an error.

I assume there is no alteration to the path, i.e. it would still be http://212.159.60.105:8002/pls, right?

This is very strange. I have tried using Firefox and Chrome and the result is the same... Does anyone still actually use IE?!

 

[CharmingNathan]

Yes Centova are correct in that you do not have to use their AutoDJ feature and you can use third party software instead. But for automatic transitions you cannot have two live sources streaming on the same mount point at the same time and then have the listeners automatically moved between them. So either they have misread your questions or they are aware of something that I am not?

No, I suspect it was Centova Cast Support being 'supportive' in their usual way!

Technically they are correct as you say, but not for smooth transitioning between pre-recorded and live...

 

[Support]

however if you go to the Internet Radio Directory under "Alternative" and click on play, the issue I described above is still happening.

Ah yes, you are correct. We shall take a look into that for you.

I assume there is no alteration to the path, i.e. it would still be http://212.159.60.105:8002/pls, right?

It should just be http://212.159.60.105:8002

If that still does not work try using the raw mp3 stream instead of http://212.159.60.105:8002/; with a semi-colon after the port number and forward slash.

Does anyone still actually use IE?!

Ha Ha Yes sadly a few people still do. Who knows why, its awful!

 

[CharmingNathan]

Ah yes, you are correct. We shall take a look into that for you.

It should just be http://212.159.60.105:8002

If that still does not work try using the raw mp3 stream instead of http://212.159.60.105:8002/; with a semi-colon after the port number and forward slash.

Ha Ha Yes sadly a few people still do. Who knows why, its awful!

Any joy with your investigations?!

W use the A.I.O. Radio Player and needs the direct stream, i.e. http://212.159.60.105:8002/pls, but I tried without the /pls and with the semi-colon as you suggested and this made no difference! So I tried 8002 and 8002;

I agree, I think using Netscrape would be better, and I remember the days when Netscrapet was a good browser too!!!

 

[Support]

Any joy with your investigations?!

Yes, this is because you are using non-standard mounts (/listen) instead of the default /live, /autodj, /stream. This is what's causing the issue. If you like we can reset it to the default although you will need to reconfigure your encoder to use /live as a mountpoint.

Also as a side note, our techie has said that BUTT should work with all Linux flavours including Centos but you may need to compile it yourself from the tarball on the site.

 

[djrobin3124]

hi im a new dj do you guys happen to know any good websites that i can store my audio content on

 

[CharmingNathan]

Thanks Support for your reply.

However, I don't really understand the problem.

While the station is now using Centova Cast's AutoDJ on 'non-standard mounts', as you put it, they are on the same mounts as they were previously!

SHOUTcast on /pls and Icecast on /listen.

I realise that /stream is considered the default, but the problem is that if I changed the mounts (or port numbers for that matter), they would be incorrect for all the radio directories that the station is listed in.

Surely to change either, would be the equivalent of a traditional radio station changing its A.M./F.M. frequency wouldnt it?

Regarding B.U.T.T., thanks for that, however my understanding of Linux is at a very basic level, and I know no idea what "compiling it yourself from the tarball on the site", actually means - sorry!

I appreciate your help with this matter.

Oh, and djrobin3124, it depends what the audio content is?