Questions about number of available stations and Roberts Stream 831 v Pure Oneflow

[Ulyssees]

In March 2008 I bought a Ministry Of Sound MOSAC150 internet radio at Argos for £130. It has provided me with countless hours of listening pleasure, and continues to do so despite a problem - the factory reset function won't work. After a change of router, I have to scan for networks manually each time and select mine before it connects.

I am looking to buy another internet radio, but before I do so am seeking answers to two questions.

My trusty old MOSAC150 boasts a choice of 21,121 stations today - the update function from Reciva is still working thankfully! 'Blurb' about current internet radios say "over 10,000 stations" are available - can they actually connect to the 21,000 odd available on mine? If not, how come?

The Pure Oneflow won the What HiFi 2012 award for best internet radio up to £150 - it can now be bought for £85 - but I have read more negative comments from owners than for the Roberts Stream 63i. I would welcome readers views, and whether I should spend £35 more on the Roberts?

It's great that I can buy the well specified Roberts stream 63i today for a tenner less than my MOSAC150 cost five and a half years ago.

 

[lockylive]

Whilst I cannot help with your query you have opened my eyes to internet radio players - is that what they are even called?

The number quoted is going to be plucked out of the air more or less and if there are problems connecting to stations then they can just blame the station for not keeping it's details up to date or changing stream url or even just blame the host.

But I have a question about the player and any internet radio players.

I presume they play shoutcast and icecast streams or the 21k figure is going to be hard to calculate, do they also play the mainstream stations, BBC, capital etc?

 

[Ulyssees]

Hi Lockylive, "shoutcast" and "icecast" are new words to me. You can listen to any radio station in any country which broadcasts a live internet stream, so long as it appears on the station list of your internet radio. My MOSAC radio has a facility to select by country. So UK stations such as BBC and Capital are available. With an FM radio signal, if you lived, say, in Essex you can only listen to the BBC local radio station broadcasting to Essex, but on an internet radio you can listen to any local BBC station.

 

[lockylive]

Interesting. Would you be able to check if you can find Big Time Radio on there? (my station)

I've had a look on ebay for internet radios and to be honest they've just confused the hell out of me. Very few seem to actually state what services they can receive. Usually it just says FM Receiver and built in wifi but without actually saying what it can get, I don't see why anyone would pay the prices for one.

The reason i'm interested is because I'm one of the few who believe things like DAB are a fad. The government and radio industry big wigs will tell you it's the future but the problem is here is that the future of radio is not going to be directed by the radio big wigs. The internet is going to massively change how the average person listens to radio. Probably on the same scale that people shop online and bank online.

 

[Ulyssees]

Lockylive, assuming this is the Cardiff, UK radio station then the answer is no. I was surprised because the community radio station Stroud FM is available. I suggest you send an enquiry e-mail from their website. 1,022 UK stations were streaming when I checked.

I agree with you completely about DAB. I only ever owned one such radio, and when my favourite station was 'pulled', I gave it to a pensioner friend who, understandably, was delighted with it.

If you can afford £85 I'd buy a new Pure One Flow. I would be very surprised if you were disappointed with what it has to offer - here's a website link: Pure ONE FLOW Portable Digital DAB and Internet Radio | electricshop.com You will see that, unlike my MOSAC150, the Pure One Flow also has a DAB tuner. STOP PRESS! You can now buy it for £80 from http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pure-One-Flow-Portable-Digital-FM-and-Internet-Radio-in-Black/190938532460

 

[lockylive]

It is Cardiff, UK and thanks for checking. I think this is a problem from the consumers point of view. They (as a layman rather than a radio enthusiast) could buy one of these internet radio players and wrongly assume that because it is new it is already rigged to stream every station available. That does not seem to be the case.
I admit as operator of Big Time I should research and see what I need to do to fix that problem but the bottom line is if you had not started this thread, I'd not even know about this and that helps the listener in no way at all. Maybe this is just because the online radio world is still in it's infancy and developing so fast that it's difficult to see what might be the long term solutions and what might simply fade away.
For example, we just changed our stream server ip recently and I'm now getting emails from the nokia music service telling me we are no longer listed. I'm not bothered, I've not heard of a single person tuning in to our station via this service and I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by not following it up but nokia are not exactly doing amazing things like they were 10 years ago.
It will be interesting to see how these stand alone players do in the coming years.

 

[Ulyssees]

Most folk will be buying an internet radio to listen to stations available on FM and will marvel that this piece of kit offers such a choice.

I was actually expecting a response to my very first post telling me not to be so 'greedy' - because with 10,000 stations on offer there is plenty of choice. Sooner or later I shall buy a second radio and will find out how it compares against my old one.

I am disappointed that no one so far has addressed either issue I raised. I thought this was the perfect forum to post on.

 

[lockylive]

Probably because this forum is mostly used by internet radio producers who run or volunteer for very small sized internet stations (like me!).

Whether or not the new radio can connect to the 21k stations is going to be hit and miss and I don't know if you'll get an answer on here or where to post that you might get an answer.
I expect again this is down to how the internet radio is developing. I would strongly suggest the vast majority of internet stations are using a shoutcast or icecast system and they are certainly very easy to stream to a lot of different devices. Finding out about them is the hard part. shoutcast.com lists its public directory online, I'm less familiar with icecast. There is also a site called the internet radio directory, again I've not looked into that too much as I am running a regional online station so my advertising is focused in my city.
The other radio stations that might use different technology is where the grey area is for me. Who knows where these stations are and how to find them? I don't think there is an answer for that.
This is also why I've not bought an internet radio player. Without knowing specifically what it can find, it's a ~£100 gamble. That's no cheap gamble!

 

[Ulyssees]

lockylive, thanks. If you don't know anyone with an internet radio you can borrow, it may be worth checking web retailers 'returns policy' to see if you can give one a try, and return for refund if it doesn't meet expectations.

I would count the MOSAC150 among my top 5 most worthwhile purchases based on the use I've got out of it, what it delivers and value for money. Okay, some faults have developed after five years, but my desktop computer was consigned to the scrap heap after only 5 years and I paid £400 for it - the internet radio cost £130.

 

[General Lighting]

My trusty old MOSAC150 boasts a choice of 21,121 stations today - the update function from Reciva is still working thankfully! 'Blurb' about current internet radios say "over 10,000 stations" are available - can they actually connect to the 21,000 odd available on mine? If not, how come?

it would depend on the technology used by the broadcaster (most of them use either shoutcast or icecast) and/or the broadcaster and local ISP being willing to allow this route. Some stations choose not to stream to some countries due to issues with copyright licensing of music, or their national Communications Ministry forbidding or discouraging "foreign broadcasting". Both these situations are relatively rare in "Western" nations and even in countries you think would restrict these broadcasts what really appears to be holding back online broadcasters are commercial issues such as bandwidth costs, and language/cultural barriers.

ISPs may decide to restrict the use of "bandwidth hungry" services, though internet radio is a relatively small user of bandwidth at local ISP level between broadcaster and listeners (hosting providers charge for the bandwidth required to deliver to 100 or more listeners simultaneously) and in some Northern European nations its now illegal to block any Internet service on commercial grounds.

The UK does not have these laws but I'm yet to hear of an ISP blocking radio streams, and it would be likely to cause them more reputation damage and loss of customers than any bandwidth this might "save".

Bear in mind also stations open and close all the time, and there are a host of other things that can knacker an internet route. But on analogue radio that also happens (albeit at slower rates) and there is a lot of interference - I know a lot of community radio stations use the Internet stream to reach areas the normal transmitter will not.

"Internet radio" receivers using wifi have been popular in Germany for some years - however this is almost certainly due to a much wider interest in technology and hobby electronics than the UK (and broadband being more available). Germany did also have an analogue broadband radio system from the 1930s onwards. Once these are set up they are generally more convenient for casual listening than switching on a portable computer or tablet and connecting up separate loudspeakers and amplifier systems, or using a mobile phone for this purpose - it runs down the battery, and you might want to use it to telephone someone whilst also listening to the radio

using them for internet stations with a decent bitrate (192k+) will get better sound quality than Band II VHF (FM) or DAB in the UK - DAB uses some old technology compared to mainland Europe and is not let available on smaller scale licenses (Ofcom are only just investigating this). . The reason the radio industry bosses overestimate its uptake in the UK is partly because many own stations in other countries, and they are also not that interested in younger listeners and/or specialist music shows as these don't bring in the advertisers (even the "youth" orientated stations from Hilversum Netherlands, a country with a thriving and tolerated dance music scene, aren't putting in as much effort as they once did!)

There is a point when you get loads of listeners it is cheaper to use conventional broadcast methods but few specialist stations get these listener numbers as it is.

I sometimes use a (much cheaper) Archos "internet radio" which is basically a low cost Android device with Tune In radio pro supplied as part of the cost, and inbuilt amp and speakers. Not sure if its still even made and its battery and software can be a bit flaky (I use it mostly for monitoring streams to make sure they are working) but it sounds surprisingly good for its small size...

 

[General Lighting]

This is also why I've not bought an internet radio player. Without knowing specifically what it can find, it's a ~£100 gamble. That's no cheap gamble!

I totally agree you should do your research (the main thing is that the device can accept your "own" URLs added to its station list), but realistically these days £100 is the lower price point of a decent portable multi band analogue radio from a UK supplier - one (that has good strong audio but not distorted and will pick up what you want it to and not other rubbish).

I have had an interest in radio since I was a young boy in the 1970s (I might be older than a fair few on here) and regularly listen to analogue stations, usually foreign ones on HF (shortwave) and decode weather transmissions (as I live by the coast in a country where there is a lot of weather), I also own a VHF/UHF scanner which was only just over £100 and for its price is capable of stuff that would have cost a grand not so long ago and that only GCHQ would have been able to do.... (although blue light servcies are all digital and I use it for legal / ethical purposes these days such as working out the best channel to use for some portable analogue sets we might use at work..)

These £100 boxes, especially if they also offer you Band II / III reception (VHF FM and DAB) aren't so bad considering what you get in the box. Bear in mind that DAB and Internet Radio need more electricity to make them work than analogue, as there must be a faster embedded computer in the device to do the audio decoding - that pushes up the price of the PSU, secondary batteries etc..

 

[Ulyssees]

Alex, thank you very much for taking the time to post a most interesting and detailed response.

When I treat myself to a new internet radio I will discover whether my MOSAC150 is like 'Heineken', or if the new radio does in fact offer the same number of stations - assuming it is programmed to display this information.

I will keep my old radio for as long as the update function from Reciva continues to work.

If anyone reading these posts has first hand experience or knowledge of either the Pure One Flow or Roberts Stream 83i I am considering buying, please share this with me.

 

[ACL]

83i

I've just bought an 83i. It cost a total of £129.99 and is worth every penny. I used to be a dxer on VHF/UHF and abit of HF so am new to internet radio but from my limited knowledge couldn't fault this radio.Its sound quality is very good and its user interface very clear and easy to use. Apparently it is very sensitive on DAB and DAB+ although I have yet to try this. Last years WRTH rated this highly, higher than the Pure Flow.

 

[ACL]

The 83i uses Frontier Silicon. If you do find any stations that are not in the data base adding them is fairly easy via the online portal. I'm not sure which is the best radio portal.

 

[Ulyssees]

ACL,thank you very much for your post.

 

[ACL]

Let us know what you decide and how you rate it once you've got it.

 

[General Lighting]

I've just bought an 83i. It cost a total of £129.99 and is worth every penny. I used to be a dxer on VHF/UHF and abit of HF so am new to internet radio but from my limited knowledge couldn't fault this radio.Its sound quality is very good and its user interface very clear and easy to use. Apparently it is very sensitive on DAB and DAB+ although I have yet to try this. Last years WRTH rated this highly, higher than the Pure Flow.

I've had a look at the tech specs and even the manual and to be fair the main things that matter on an internet radio will be the user interface and sound quality (as with any digital transmission its "all or nothing"). Also Frontier Silicon is a well respected and popular chipset brand (it also appears to be a British company!) and similar to Roberts unlikely to suddenly disappear (one big problem with these devices can be that they go out of production and stop being supported very quickly.

The only (minor) gripe I would have with it is that unlike a similar sized analogue set it does not appear have a capability to run from local batteries - thus tethering it to wherever a mains socket is readily available..I however can understand why this feature was not included as it would push up the price of the set and its weight as most of these use as much as 1A to keep the computer kit running as well as the audio amplifier because of the displays, the wifi chip etc...

 

[ACL]

I've had a look at the tech specs and even the manual and to be fair the main things that matter on an internet radio will be the user interface and sound quality (as with any digital transmission its "all or nothing"). Also Frontier Silicon is a well respected and popular chipset brand (it also appears to be a British company!) and similar to Roberts unlikely to suddenly disappear (one big problem with these devices can be that they go out of production and stop being supported very quickly.

The only (minor) gripe I would have with it is that unlike a similar sized analogue set it does not appear have a capability to run from local batteries - thus tethering it to wherever a mains socket is readily available..I however can understand why this feature was not included as it would push up the price of the set and its weight as most of these use as much as 1A to keep the computer kit running as well as the audio amplifier because of the displays, the wifi chip etc...

Yes in order to listen to it in the garden you would need to plug it into a fair size extension cable. Portable listening elsewhere would be a no go although you are unlikely to have wi-fi there but would be a disadvantage for DAB and DAB+. The FM reception is poor on this radio although I have no interest in FM radio and I don't think many people buying it would even bother testing FM. I also see General Lighting you are from Suffolk. I'm from Norwich. During my analogue dxing days I used to receive a lot from the Netherlands and Germany both on VHF and UHF.

 

[ACL]

Just a quick note about the number of internet stations that can be received. Surely this is irrelevant as a radio is only as good as its portal. Providing it [the radio and portal] allows the adding your own URLs there is no potential limited.

 

[Ulyssees]

Lockylive, this may be of interest to you in getting your station added to
portals: www.sharp-stream.com/wp-content/.../09/Useful-links-for-stations.pdf‎

ACL, I did buy a Roberts 83i - BUT as a Christmas present for a friend. He found it a breeze to set up and is delighted with the sound quality and its capabilities.

I have discovered only today that the more expensive Roberts WM201 uses the Receiva portal, so maybe over time I'll buy an 83i and then a 201 when my MOS is 'on its last legs'!